I had Herbst on a real Treatment for a year till november 20. Now i have forsus-springs and the best, if you know how, i can remove it an wear my Headgear (it is not part of the treatment). Herbst is nice, but Headgear is better! Both would be great, and i think it should work when the Herst is on the 7th teeth, HG on the 6 and the Loops pointing upwards.