It looks like I will be getting braces for the second time! It’s not totally decided, at least not where and when, but here is where things stand so far (I'm breaking it up into multiple posts in this topic).

My orthodontic background: I got braces when I was 13 (back in 1998). full metal brackets, bands on my first molars, elastics, and a removable biteplate for roughly 6 months. My teeth didn't look bad before getting braces, but I think it was at least partially to correct a deep bite. The orthodontist I had never explained what was going on (called the biteplate a retainer, and I was given no warning that I'd have one; one appointment they just set it down on the table and tell me that I need to wear it), and I can remember at the consultation, he just talked to my mom and didn't really talk to me. I got my braces off after 15-16 months. I was given an essix upper retainer and a permanent lower retainer. I did a good job wearing the upper retainer for the first two or three years, I think, but then mostly stopped wearing it. The deep bite came back pretty quickly (recollection was maybe even within a few months of getting braces off).

So, fast-forward to now. Starting about a month ago, I noticed that when biting down it didn’t feel the same on the right side as it did on the left side. Looking in the mirror, I could tell that the teeth on the right weren’t meeting together the way the teeth on the left did. Luckily, I had a normal dentist appointment scheduled for about two weeks later.

Before that, though, I found a highly rated orthodontist in my area who had a thing on their website for a virtual consultation. It guides you through taking a few photos of your teeth and submits them to the ortho’s office to be looked at (some googling and it looks like a lot of orthodontists around the US offer this same service using the same software, SmileSnap). They called me after a few days and told me that I had an edge-to-edge bite on the right side, where the teeth bite down on the cusps, instead of fitting in between each other. Didn’t give me a price or length of treatment over the phone, but asked if I wanted to come for an in-person consultation. Told them not at the moment, since I wanted to talk to my dentist and my wife before scheduling an in-person appointment with an orthodontist.

Told my wife that my bite wasn’t feeling right and didn’t look right, and that I’d be bringing it up to the dentist even though I pretty much knew the only thing they could really do is recommend seeing an orthodontist. She basically said let’s see what the dentist says.

At the dentist office on May 3rd, I mentioned it to the hygienist first when she asked if any teeth were bothering me (they always ask that right as I sit down). The hygienist didn’t seem to believe me that something was off, even though I told her that I had sent photos to an orthodontist and what they had said. After my teeth were cleaned, the dentist came in and I told her. She kinda looked at it some and was asking me questions like “Did you bite on something really hard? Did you get hit in the face?”. Which, no, nothing like that happened. The dentist did agree that the right side wasn’t quite right, and so she recommended two additional orthodontists that I could get opinions from.

I scheduled consultation appointments with those three orthos. One that my dentist recommended didn’t have an open consult appointment until late July! And this was scheduling in the first week of May! That office is also not open Fridays.

I’ve had the first two consultations, but I’ll make those as separate posts in this topic. Starting a little before the dentist appointment and going until those two consultations, I have also felt a tiny bit of tenderness if various teeth here and there, which leads me to believe that things have been pushed around in the last month as my mouth is adjusting to what's happening with my bite.

Second Consultation (Ortho B)

I had this consultation this past Tuesday. This orthodontist was recommended by my dentist. The office is pretty close to where I live, and I have heard of this orthodontist. Some people I went to school with probably got their braces from him. He has a very good reputation (in fact, on their website he claims to be "one of the most celebrated orthodontists in the entire Midwest"; at most I think this might only be slightly exaggerated).

Different feel to the office. Ortho A's had a more open feel, with higher ceilings in the reception area and longer sight-lines. This office felt much more closed in (probably mostly just because it's a bit older of this type of building). While sitting in the waiting room, saw an ortho assistant walk a young girl (maybe 8?) out to her mother and overheard her tell the mother that the girl would continue to wear her headgear at night.

Again, had photos and a panoramic x-ray taken (this x-ray machine would talk, it was kinda weird). Orthodontist comes and examines me. Discussing what he saw, it's the same diagnosis as Ortho A, though before he explained things he stated that he's very conservative about removing teeth and never wants to remove a healthy tooth. I appreciate hearing this, but I wasn't under the impression that was something I personally would be presented with. Ortho B spent more time talking about how my teeth could wear themselves down. He said that in 15 years, I'll probably find my lower incisors feeling rough as they sort of get shaved down by my upper incisors.

The models on the desk were only Damon braces again, so I don't know if this orthodontist uses traditional brackets on anyone.

Ortho B, pointing to a model on the desk, said that most adults coming in want clear brackets, and he can do that, but he said the metal Damon braces have ben updated a few times since the clear ones have been, and so they just have a higher level of technology. He said if I were his son, I'd get metal.

Recommended treatment is very similar to Ortho A Just some of the details are different (I wonder how much of this is that these two orthodontists used to share a practice, and how much is they are both very good orthos who honed in on the same issues and how to correct them). I am curious about the differences, and may contact them later to ask why.

As to the differences, Ortho B would start with brackets on all upper teeth when tilting the upper incisors. Same 4-6 month forecast. Then, he would also place a Carriere on both sides, but one tooth further back, first bicuspid to second molar (my wisdom teeth were removed several years ago). Instead of a lower lingual holding arch, he would put the lower brackets on at this point. He would leave the upper brackets on the incisors and canines. This would also be for 4-6 months. After the Carriere is removed, brackets would be put back on all the upper teeth. No description of what kind of elastics may or may not be needed at that point. I asked the treatment coordinator (after the ortho had left), and she said the deep bite would be corrected by the braces, but didn't elaborate on potential elastics or bite turbos or anything.

Retainers would be exactly what I got after I first had braces, upper essix and lower permanent. No extra nighttime retainers. The orthodontist did say that if I really wanted, after 5 years or something they could remove the permanent retainer and give me a lower essix. He said he's a big fan of permanent retainers and remarked that his oldest daughter (who is an orthodontist at this same practice) has had hers for 20 years. I've had mine for 23 now.

Total time for treatment is estimated at 21 months, maybe less if I'm really diligent with elastics wear. Cost would be $8,415.

Ortho B mentioned that he doesn't recommend invisalign for my case because, as attentive and detail-oriented I am with what's going on with my teeth, aligners couldn't get 80% of what I want and I'd be unhappy with the result.

I did not have quite the same positive feeling from this office. I'm sure the results would be great. However, the treatment coordinator wasn't as friendly and didn't go into as much detail about things (luckily I had had so much of basically the same thing explained in lots of detail four days earlier). She also kinda confused me about one or two things, though they did get straightened out. For example, when she showed me the form explaining the cost, she went through it explaining how paying in full or monthly payments would work, and then just sat there looking at me for a bit. She then said she'd like to make a copy of it. I said okay, and looked back at her. After an awkward few second, she finally asked if I needed time to think about it or if I'd like to get started. My interpretation of what happened is that she expected that I would want to start right away and so I'd sign the form, but she never asked that or even asked me to sign it. The treatment coordinator at Ortho A's office explained the same kind of form, but then did ask my to sign on a second blank, and explained that (at least for their office) signing was not any kind of obligation and just showed that the costs had been explained to me. Ortho B himself didn't give me significantly different vibes than Ortho A himself, but between the less positive interactions with the treatment coordinator, the $1,200 price difference, and not having the nighttime retainers that while maybe not necessary would make me feel more sure of the results being maintained long term, I feel pretty confident ruling out Ortho B. I think I may prefer having more brackets earlier and longer during treatment, but I can't justify that price difference with just that, and the lower lingual holding arch from Ortho A might be interesting.

It's kind of exciting to thing that I'll be getting braces again. I've wanted to have them for a second time for more than 10 years at this point, I think, but didn't have (or hadn't noticed) any issues that justified spending thousands.

It's also weird to think about for a few reasons. One is that if you just see me talking or smiling, you'd probably say my teeth look straight and I don't need braces (or at least most people would; people here might notice the incisor that's a little out of line; my wife couldn’t really even notice how that tooth was different after I pointed it out to her). I have family and friends with teeth that are significantly more out of alignment, at least what is visible when they talk and smile, so it feels weird that I'd seek treatment and they wouldn't, but maybe they just really don't care. My mother's upper incisors are similarly retroclined, or maybe worse, and her upper arch is narrow and kind of V-shaped, but I've never heard her express any dissatisfaction other than the slight gap between her two front teeth (her childhood dentist cut her frenulum to try to let it close up some when she was a teenager, I think).

I don't want to have to explain to people why I have braces in my late 30's, but I have a legitimate reason so it shouldn't be hard, I guess. Nice in some ways that I'll be done with braces, and mostly done with 24/7 retainer wear, before I turn 40.

At the very least, I'm waiting until I get the letters with the measurements and diagnoses from Orthos A and B that they said they'd send before officially making a decision (not that those should really influence me, but I want to see just how similar they are).

I wanted to post all this here since I thought people would find it interesting. I know I included a lot of detail. I’ll continue to post here as things progress, and I can try to answer question you all might have for me.

Congratulations on your decision to pursue treatment! I myself got braces again about 2 months ago for the 2nd time and I’m loving it.

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned you were excited to get braces again. Is this purely due to a medical reason (fixing your bite)? Or do you feel any special attraction to braces? Sorry if this is an uncomfortable question, you don’t have to respond if you feel uncomfortable.

Either way, best of luck with your treatment and I hope everything goes smoothly for you!

Here are the photos that were taken at the consult with Ortho A:

https://dereferer.me/?https://www.flickr.com/gp/189082961@N04/R02511

They do a good job of showing the deep bite, the retroclined (tilted in towards mouth) incisors, and the class 2 bite on the right side (bottom left photo). My bite on the left side (bottom right photo) is very slightly class 2, also.

Hey, did you go through with it? Excited for you!! Would be curious to see any updates.

First few days

So I've had my top front braces for three days now. I'm starting to get used to seeing braces on my teeth when looking in a mirror. Still not totally used to it, but it doesn't look as strange. My mouth is also starting to get used to the sensation of them. Last night in bed, there were a few times where, if my lips were in the right place, the feeling of the braces kind of went away even though I knew my lips were still touching them. Most of the time, though, very aware of their presence.

The Damon brackets still seem to "poke" more than what I remember of traditional braces. Not like my lips or cheeks are getting hooked on them or anything, but I can feel the sharp corners, and the ligatures on traditional braces kind of padded the brackets a little, I feel. The tie wings on the brackets on my incisors, in particular, feel sharp when I press my lips against them. The ends of the wire haven't bothered me at all, the assistant did a great job of bending and tucking them back (well, except for the fact that I have to be really careful when flossing there that the floss doesn't get hooked on the wire). I have found that the brackets irritate my lips and cheeks more when wearing a mask, but putting wax on the bicuspid brackets helps a lot with that.

Overall, I haven't felt pain or soreness when not pressing on a tooth, biting down on something, or my lower teeth accidentally hitting my upper teeth (or when my four-year-old raised her hand quickly while sitting in my lap and hit my face). Day two (Tuesday) was the worst, and it's gotten better yesterday and today. Still can't eat normally, but because the braces are only on the top, and not on my molars or second bicuspids, I can stick small bites of food into my mouth and chew on those teeth. Started being able to take small bites of soft foods with my front two incisors yesterday afternoon. The right lateral incisor (the one with a stop on either side of the bracket in the photo I posted) has been the most sore by a decent margin. I'm guessing it has felt some left/right forces that the other teeth haven't.

My left lateral incisor moved quickly! It has been back a little bit in my mouth compared to the teeth around it for along time (can see it in photos from the end of high school, 20 years ago; I must have stopped wearing my upper retainer at night half to two-thirds of the way through high school). I thought I had felt it move a little before I even got to my car after getting the braces on. By Wednesday (and still now), it is very nearly lined up with the incisor next to it. Wednesday, and even Tuesday, I kept running my tongue along the backs of my upper incisors, because they haven't felt that lined up to each other for, yeah, 20+ years. Makes that side of the front of my mouth feel just a touch bigger to my tongue. It was really exciting to notice that kind of movement that quickly.

I'm sure other movement has been happening, despite not really seeing it yet, because the way my bite feels, particularly in the front, has changed a little over these few days. Can't really describe it, but it's just a little different.

When I do run my tongue along the inside of my upper teeth, I can feel the connectedness from the wire, and even some tightness across those teeth.

The brackets on my incisors seem placed fairly low to me. I'll ask about the reason for that at some point, but it does make me worried that, once the soreness has gone away enough, it will be easy to knock a bracket off while eating.

I am kind of a meek or shy person, so I have been worried about people seeing my braces and how they'll react. I don't think I'm as worried about that as I was as a young teen with braces, but now it's not like a huge number of my peers are also in braces at the same time. I am still wearing a mask when at work, except when alone in my office, so no coworkers have seen my braces or know about them yet. No lisp (to my ear) so I don't think there's anything to give it away yet. Haven't seen friends in person yet, so I still don't know how they will react. I had a followup with my allergist yesterday, and while that building requires masks for everyone, the doctor checks your throat, ears, and nose at followups, so outside of the orthodontist's office or my immediate family, my allergist was the first person to see my braces face-to-face. She asked how they were, and I told her I had just gotten them that week. She mentioned that she did invisalign, and that it helped with her jaw clenching. I knew the allergist would see the braces at that appointment, but hadn't worried about it at all since one, she's a medical professional doing her job, and two, I hadn't seen her in almost a year and my next followup won't be for another year. I have a followup of sorts with my dentist this afternoon having to do with a filling I got last week (or more precisely, some jaw muscle soreness/tightness I've had since the filling, has only added to the difficulties of eating), but I did tell her last week at that appointment that I had chosen an orthodontist and would be starting this week, so my dentist shouldn't be surprised. With how low the brackets are on my incisors and my deep bite, I couldn't hide the braces while talking even if I wanted to. I've been making a conscious effort at home with my wife and kids to just be natural and normal as to how much and when I show my teeth and smile, kind of as practice for being around friends (and eventually coworkers) who will see my braces.

I'm still definitely adjusting to these braces. I've even woken up in the middle of the night the past three night. Not because there was soreness or pain or anything, but I think my body just knew something out of the ordinary was going on and so it decided to wake me up. Hopefully the soreness when biting goes away soon, and I'm looking forward to seeing more progress as I go!

Two Weeks

Today marks two weeks since I got braces. I’m still adjusting to them, but they are starting to feel more normal.

Sensitivity when biting down is mostly gone. The day after getting the braces on was definitely the worst, and has gradually gotten better since then. While at first my lateral incisors were most sensitive (especially the right one that has stops on both sides of the bracket), now my canines are most sensitive. I’m guessing this is because the way the brackets are placed on them looks like they’re going to tip the roots towards the bicuspids (to get ready for the Carriere, maybe?).

Even though it’s hard to tell when looking in the mirror or in a photo, I can feel that both lateral incisors have moved some. The left one has come forward some, and the right one has rotated in place, I think (used to be lined up with neighboring teeth, now one side is a little behind the central incisor, and the other side is a little ahead of the canine). I can’t tell if there’s been any other movement, yet, but things just feel different (for the past day or two, my canines on the right hit when I bite down; they didn’t used to do that).

It still doesn’t quite look normal to me when seeing my braces in the mirror or in a photo, but not as weird as the first few days. My wife mentioned the other day that my teeth don’t look as big as they did the first few days with the braces, so I think she’s getting a little more used to seeing them.

A few times now over the past few days, if my lips and cheeks are in just the right spot and don't move, I don't feel the braces. And for one conversation today, I wasn't thinking about how they felt or how to position my lips around them. Mostly, though, I'm still almost always aware of them.

A few people I know have seen them now, or at least had the chance to. Dropped something off at a friend’s house, and they didn’t seem to notice, but they may not have even looked at my mouth, and it was only like a 10 second interaction. My parents visited us out in our front yard, and kept at a distance some they had recently been exposed to Covid, and so had my wife. They either didn’t notice, or decided not to comment at all (though I think my wife had briefly mentioned to my mom a couple days before I got them that I would be getting braces again). My in-laws also stopped by outside, and they noticed, but it was a pretty quick part of the conversation. My mother-in-law mentioned she wished she had gotten braces in the past. I told them my ortho’s office has had adult patients of all ages, even up to an 84-year-old, but I don’t think that’s going to get her to look into it for herself. Her teeth are quite visibly crowded.

Here is a photo of my teeth as of today: https://dereferer.me/?https://www.flickr.com/gp/189082961@N04/r18KU7

I don’t know if I’ll post another update before my appointment in August, maybe if I notice more changes.